LaMar Boschman and Batsirai Chada discuss the importance of having a music theology. If we don't have an understanding of what the Bible says about music we will misuse it and not make application of music as God intended.
These topics are in a transformational online course called The Music of God that will help you know how to use music to experience God's presence and power resulting in miracles.
LaMar's books and blogs on the subject are available at LaMarBoschman.com
Welcome to the LaMar Boschman podcast. And this series is called The Music of God. And we're exploring the mysteries of music making in God's kingdom. Wow. What conversations we're having! Now, this episode, we're going to look at the importance of having a music theology and what that looks like. Welcome to this podcast. I'm LaMar Boschman , and we're exploring the music of God, the mysteries and the secrets we're discovering of music in God's kingdom and how it's different and what it's like. And I'm excited about this subject today because we're going to explore , uh, what our theology of music should be. Now I know theology sounds heady. I know it sounds like a professor, something he might talk about, but it's relevant to every single Christian. And if they don't have the right theology, it will skew their whole life and they will not fulfill their destiny, possibly. Unless God miraculously intervenes and causes us to find out that reality. And that's why some Christians are confused because they really don't know what the Bible says about certain subjects. Our subject today is music. Music is God's kingdom. Well, I want to welcome Batsirai Chada from Oshawa, Ontario. Hey brother.Batsirai Chada:
How are you doing.LaMar Boschman :
Good. I'm loving this topic, man. This is my life study. I'm so pumped, man. We could talk forever and ever, and ever. I told my wife today that this, we might have 20 sessions here and she said 20 sessions. Wow. That's only part one. Oh wow. Of the potential. Uh, there might be part two and three. So there could be 60 to a hundred session . I don't know, but I'm just starting with this piece because music in God's kingdom is interesting. And there's 1100 mentions of music in the Bible. Or do you know what they are Mr. Christian, pastor, do you know what they are? And musician? Worship team member? Worship leader? Do you know what the Bible says about music? And it's important to know that because we may not be making music the way God wants it to be made. And maybe that's why we don't see the signs and wonders the miracles and the presence of God that we talk about. But often aren't there... They sound, or the service feels flat and I'm going to give you some principles and help you become a power musician, a power minister, whether you're playing an instrument or not. And the key to that is theology. Now theology is basically the study of God and theology is for everyone and critical to everyone. And a simple definition is the study of God and God's relationship to his world or his creation. So it provides a foundation for the philosophy and worldview in your life, which in turn sets up inclinations of your heart and actions and decisions in all situations. So your theology will determine how you think, how you act and how you behave in any and every situation, not just how, how you do it at church. So the principle is here. Everything in your life is affected by your theology. So Batsirai. Here's the rub. We do not have a good theology of music. So we are not making music correctly. I mean, we're not being affected by a music theology cause some of us as musicians and pastors, worship leaders, Christians who just want to see God come in power through their favorite worship artists don't have a music theology. So we're misappropriating and misapplying music to our culture situation. And so it's a challenge.Batsirai Chada:
Yeah. This is why the course, I think is so important. The music of God, because it is a theology of music, a phenology of worship that allows... Gives us a framework for , um, for everything that we do. Everyone has a theology. Yes . Even atheist has a theology. Theology is that there is no God, you know , that is a thought , thoughts are like, I kind of liken them to software of the brain. A great operating system allows for great productivity and great results. If you have a corrupt operating system, man operating, just doing anything, it's just slow and you open up a software to run and it's just slow and clunky and it doesn't work right. But when you have a great operating system you're just productive and it's just great fruit. Another analogy could be trees or fruit, you know like music, the power of music and signs and wonders. Those are all fruits. We need to be more concerned about the tree. Very good. We have a healthy tree. The fruit takes care of itself. Right? Good theology is that sort of good understanding of the tree. It's having good roots. It's having a good framework.LaMar Boschman :
I came across that quote for leaders and posted it on Instagram. Focus on the root, not the fruit. That's good. And when we focus on the root, the foundations, the fundamental aspects of making music in God's kingdom, God's view what God has said about music. And we focus on that all the fruit, is what you're saying, will happen. The miracles, the signs and wonders. That's exactly what this course is about and why I am motivated to teach this course. I teach it at a different universities and et cetera, and wrote books about it. That's been my life study, why? I want to see people have that fruit, have that power encounter. In fact, the whole mission for my ministry is to equip people to encounter God. And you know what? Batsirai. I found out the key is music. The right music brings all kinds of fruit, all kinds of, and all sudden 'poof' there's God. And what excites me about that is because God loves music. That's why I'm excited about the concept. God loves music because when you get the right view of God in music making, then the fruit comes. It's just there. I'm thinking right now, when I was in Athens, Greece, I took a team with me there and we worshiped and led worship and the power and presence of God came so powerfully that the keyboardist had to kneel beside his keyboard and weep. The drummer laid across the snare. The bass player fell on the floor, across his bass and we stopped playing. And the people just kept worshiping and worshiping and worshiping. We were weeping and weeping, weeping. Why? Because we stepped in and actuated the music making principles of God and poof. There was a God encounter, powerful. I know you've experienced it in your life. And sometimes we accidentally stumble on these things like I did. When I found out that demons leave. When you play a certain kind of music, I didn't have the theology. At first, I stumbled on. I said , why did the demons manifested ? What they're gone now? What did we do? What happened? And that's why I've added one and one and two and figured out, Oh, we actuated that principle that's in the Bible.Batsirai Chada:
That's so good. And that's really, and then we speak, even though that story, it's like, why aren't we seeing that? You know, weekly or what... In our services, why are we not seeing that sort of, why aren't we even hungering and thirsting for such encounters? And of course, a lot of people do, but we also get very quickly satisfied by applause. And we get quickly satisfied by the lights and the cameras and the thumbs up and good people and good music. And we've lost sight of the potential and the power. Yeah . Somebody now just come to mindLaMar Boschman :
and even the songs, you know, the songs have become idols. Yeah . Oh, I like that song. Exactly. Let's sing it. Let's let's honor it. Let's lift it up. Let's exalt it. Anybody see Jesus. So then our music making is flat when we're presenting songs and we have a set list and our focus is not coming into His presence with singing. You're so right, because we don't have a good theology because we don't have, we don't actuate the Biblical principles of music-making. That's why we don't have it on Sunday morning besides other, and I mean, weekend services, besides there's other principles like that it's open house. We have limited time. We have multiple services. Those are all dynamics, but you know what? In one minute we can encounter God. If we apply the right music making principles. One minute, not even a song. Just play some chord , bam, you're there. So that's why we need have a theology... When you don't understand. So during this study, we're going to discover the Biblical truths of the music of God. Music in God's kingdom, will empower you to be a spiritual music maker or how, if you're not a musician and singer, to use music to have a power encounter. Different principles, you could apply to encounter God anytime and anywhere. In fact, Batsirai, just, this week, I have a friend that I've kind of influencing or mentoring in a way , uh , call me and the first thing he says, well, LaMar I was thinking of you today and I wanted to tell you,... and he affirmed me et cetera, et cetera. But he said, I'm not an artist. I'm not a musician. And right away, I'm thinking, okay, well, you don't understand that this doesn't have to do only with artists and musicians, this aspect of music making, but he said this, he said, I have realized that the time and the place that I encounter, God the most is through music. And I said, that's it, man. That's the theology of music. I've been trying to tell you that the touch point, the power encounter, the catalyst is a certain kind of music. And he experienced that. He's not even a musician.Batsirai Chada:
Some things need to be caught than taught. You need to experience it to really know it. You know, even when the Bible says to know, like, it's an Epic gnosis. It's just to experientially know something, not just as a cognitive thing. So even when we say a theology of God, sometimes that, or theology of music that sometimes we feel like it's a cerebral thing. Like if I could read enough paragraphs on theology of music, now I have a theology of music. It's like , no, there's something that needs to be apprehended on the inside. I think one of the moments for me, I was at a church with Graham Kendrick, (this was now 15, 20, years ago or so , um , 0 was leading worship. And I really wanted him to sing some of his classics like Shine, Jesus Shine and all this stuff. He didn't, he didn't, he was playing... And the atmosphere in that room was so just transcendent . I remember, I didn't know any of the songs, but I was just in this place of worship that I had never been. And I , I was making songs up. I think I was writing songs in that moment. Just singing new songs to the Lord. I don't remember any of them. This was years ago, but also when I went back to my, after it was over, I went back to my chair and I was almost like a little disappointed because I was like, well, that was short. I was like 15 minutes long. And the guy next to me was like , uh, no, it wasn't. That was an hour and a half.LaMar Boschman :
Oh, there you go.Batsirai Chada:
And he must've done three songs, to my memory, in that hour and a half. The, the level, the depth of worship and the depth of the encounter, the, reality of that encounter went far beyond any of the cords or things that they were doing. I don't know what they were doing. And neither did I run up afterwards and say, Hey, give me those songs. What songs were those? That established theology of music forSpeaker 2:
me that made me understand. There is more, there is more to be experienced by the church , um , than just a great set list or song list or whatever.LaMar Boschman :
And that could be why there's a disconnect between us making music and leading worship. And there's no fruit, there's no manifestation of, you know, we say, Oh, God's here. Well, nobody's really feeling it yet. Maybe a few people. And it's because when we just have head knowledge, and that's what I think when a lot of worship teams do they have head knowledge, Oh yeah, we're supposed to worship in spirit and truth, but they don't know what that means. They don't know how to apply it and they've not experienced it. And that's why, why, when I teach on worship and teach them music, making, I always have the principle of teach and taste. They're like two epoxies you g ot t o teach the information. Then not keep it cerebral. Like you said, and not just head knowledge. And yeah, I got that in my notes. In my Evernotes or wherever I keep it. I stuck it in my Bible, but teach and taste. You got to experience it. And when you put those two together, it's catalytic and people began to realize what it is you're talking about. And they tasted it and they never will be the same again. Remember the first time that you tasted real worship. That's what I'm saying. It's like, you're , you're spoiled for anything. Exactly.Batsirai Chada:
And it's actually dangerous because if you don't have a good theology of music, now you might actually now start getting rebellious and saying , well, we're not doing anything until we get back to that, going back to that mountain top experience and not realizing, it's like, okay, that was a taste of what God wants to do, but you don't make an idol either... out of that mountain, top experience, God is even bigger than that. And He loves, He wants to encounter it all the time, but yeah, we need to taste and teach. Um , and I think, especially in the Western thinking, the teaching we have down pat, we have so many books, so many resources, it is mind boggling, but our tasting .LaMar Boschman :
Yeah. And that's why I love going to other continents like Africa and South America and Asia, because they're more existential, experiential touchy-feely, they're more mystical. They're more spiritual. It's in their DNA. It's in who they are as a people and get away from my Dutch, my Canadian-ness, my personality, that's stoic and reserve my strategies and paradigms and experience the moving of the Holy Spirit with music and power. And that's one thing I'm thankful to God for having the ability ever since I was very young to travel as the first itinerant worship ministry that I know of and just experience different cultures and that experience with the theology. Powerful, powerful.Batsirai Chada:
Exactly. I grew up in Zimbabwe 12 years there and I came back to Canada. I was 20 years old. Um, and I remember walking into a Christian bookstore for the first time here. It was like walking like a kid, walking into a candy store or a toy store. I was just overwhelmed with the amount of resources, the, the wall of music back in those days, it was like cassette tapes and CDs hanging. And, you know, just the wall of music, all the books and Bibles. And then the very first time I went there, just the sadness came over me after seeing all of that. Like , if you guys have all of this, why is the church where it's at? Shouldn't you be leagues ahead? Because I felt like I was, I had such great hopes coming to North America, that the churches I wouldn't get to go to an encounter would be like, I saw on the DVDs or whatever. That just amazing places of just full freedom and worship, et cetera. And I came here and I was like, I know like main line Anglican churches in Zimbabwe that have more freedom than Pentecostal churches here. Yeah . And I would just confounded like, what is going on and then to go into this bookstore and realize all the resources that are available to everybody, everybody in the church. And yet there was still this immaturity in the church that I found here compared to what I was coming from. And I remember that, that sadness, and I'm not in that , if anything, I've maybe become part of that culture too. I'm not saying I'm better than or anything like that . But there was a sadness of, to whom much is given much as expected. Right.LaMar Boschman :
And that's what I find in those cultures. When I traveled that they hunger for, for the knowledge, the paradigm, the revelation teaching that God has graced me with. But at the same time, I love their experience , their encounter with God. And so we cross pollinate one another and I come back with stories of signs and wonders and miracles that happened. And we put those two together they're powerful. But you have to know the principles because if you don't, I guess that's my point. If you just have the experience, you don't know why... I go to Brazil Cola . They have a great experience. Oh, they're touching God, but they don't know why they do it . They do. And what happens when they do it and how to reproduce that at home or on the street. Cause they don't know the principle . So we need to know the theology of music and the music making, because we want to know what is God's view of music. What's, what's the principle . See, if God loves music so much, it's part of His economy, the angels sing and it happened at creation and God loves us so much. And He made all of his creatures make music. Then what is the intent? What is the purpose of music in God's kingdom? And there's so many things that , uh, we can talk about why music is important and why we have a theology of music. A couple of the reasons, I've got a 12 right in front of me here, but we get into it on the course, the online course, the Music of God. Music's mentioned so many times in scripture, music's important to God. We established that. And here's a principle. Music is a doorway to the spirit world in the kingdom of God and the kingdom of darkness. Music is a language that communicates our passion, our spirit, but there's also a spiritual quality in music that can bring you down a path of lust, humanization, suicide, glorious presence of God, prophesying signs and wonders, revival, people we being. And there's this not only emotional element, but the spiritual element in music that I've found from my experience. And you probably too , from coming from Africa, you know, Zimbabwe that dynamicBatsirai Chada:
Hundred percent! Some of us sort of remove that because we don't want to feel like we're controlled or anything like that. You know, pretend like that doesn't exist, but it does exist probably in the measures that we're not even familiar with or comfortable with expressing, but it does exist. And the greater we can study it and understand it the more we can be aware of the positives and negatives and use those positives to the glory of God and also diminish the negatives also to the glory of God,LaMar Boschman :
Right. Because the whole purpose of having a theology and know the Biblical principles is so you can actuate them. You can engage them and find more victory in your life. You can overcome uncertainties, you can change the atmosphere. You could see people healed, you can see people saved, you can come against spiritual darkness. You could, you could just do all these other things. If you know the principles of music and that's, what's coming up, Batsirai. And our next session is we're going to talk about the intent and the real meaning and purpose of music from God's perspective. And man, I want to see a whole tribe of music makers rise up in the last days to be power ministers. It's coming, it's coming. I feel it, my spirit. And so I want to run with the flag and say, Hey guys, we're over here. Let's get into this. Let's go. Follow me. I'm not the only one teaching on this, but there's very few teachers on the biblical aspect of music making. So I want to challenge you to take that online course called the Music of God at www.lamarboschman .com . There's a red button there. You press that and it'll take you to the course online and we can go deep and study to show ourselves approved unto God as musicians. And then God can use us in power. See that's another sad thing, Batsirai, is guys spend so much time learning their craft, all this expense of going to college and learning theology, or music theory. And they work hard to get to play perfectly and beautifully. And as a Christian, they don't learn the Biblical music making principles in the kingdom. And so their music is flat. It's impotent. Yeah. It's sad. You know why it's not really their fault. They just don't know better. No one's ever told them no pastor has ever got up and preached on the ministry of music and the Bible because we very few of us in God's church have a theology of music, man. I'm feeling the anointing of God on my life right now and I want to press this point home. Study the Bible about music, especially if you're a musician and don't fall short of the destiny and the purpose you have in the gift, God gave you in Jesus name. Well , there it is. That's right. Thank you for joining us. And we're going to talk more about this, the real meaning and purpose of music coming up. So tell somebody about it. And we look forward to the next session of this podcast, the music and God.