Author and keynote speaker LaMar Boschman discusses with Batsirai Chada who are the musicians in heaven. What musical instruments do they play and who played them? What do those musical instruments look like and sound like?
These topics are in a transformational online course called The Music of God that will help you know how to use music to experience God's presence and power resulting in miracles.
LaMar's books and blogs on the subject are available at LaMarBoschman.com
LaMar Boschman: 0:00
Hey, welcome to this podcast and we're exploring the music of God I'm LaMar Boschman and this subject has been my life's study, and we're talking about where music came from. What is its genesis? The songs and the singers of Heaven. But now, in this episode, we're gonna visit about the musicians in heaven. What musical instruments did they play and who played them and our conversations on the topics covered in an in-depth, an online course called The Music of God available that LaMarBoschman.com. Let's get into this intriguing topic,.
LaMar Boschman: 0:42
I love the subject. And so we've been talking about what's the genesis of music. We've been talking about who sings in heaven. We talked about the songs of heaven and where music came from and all that, And so we're getting further further on in discovering the music of God, and it starts of course with Him, and it started in the celestial realm. So that's why we have to look at it. So this podcast is from the online course called The Music of God, and it's available at lamarboschman.com. And that's where you can get in that course all the scriptures and the theology, the stories, the background, the context of everything we're talking about. But this podcast we're talking about and having a conversation about this very subject. And my, co-host on this podcast, is Batsirai Chada. He's from Oshawa, Ontario, and he's a worship leader and he's a musician singer. And we welcome you. Batsirai. You there?
Batsirai Chada: 1:45
I am really good to be here. So happy to be part of this, um, such a amazing topic that needs some exploration and so glad to be with you.
LaMar Boschman: 1:57
I want to read the Scripture because this kind of sets our tone for what we're gonna talk about here. Revelation 14:2, John said he heard the crescendo of a huge stringed orchestra and he said, I heard the sound from heaven like the roar of mighty ocean waves or the rolling of loud thunder. And it was like the sound of many harpists playing together. Or you could say it was like the sound of many guitar players played together, and it was so loud it was deafening. Can you imagine what instruments are like in heaven?
Batsirai Chada: 2:32
It's hard to even know, instruments in heaven. Um, are they actual harps are they actual... like we would know a harp right. Probably not. Probably not. Isn't just the closest thing that John had to sort of use Um, description wise. Scale is something that I think we're as humans not really aware of. Especially when it comes to that And the biggest thing we've ever seen as an orchestra. We're talking about millions of times bigger than that.
LaMar Boschman: 3:01
No wonder he said it was like, the roar of loud thunder.
Batsirai Chada: 3:08
Exactly. Exactly. There's a stadium thing with thousands of guitarists who all play (a forget when some seventies rock thing) that happened?. Yeah, it was like it just a big stadium. Everybody was plugged in with a guitar and AMP. And they all did it together in in sections, and it was massive. So, like thousands of guitarists, all playing at once, Um, obviously coordinated. I mean, that doesn't even come close. I think to revelations 14 is saying here,
LaMar Boschman: 3:34
right? And these guys were playing with what scholars say was like a harp like instrument. It was the predecessor of the lyre or the guitar that we have today, So I don't know how many strings that had. There's 144,000 guitar players that are called these Messianic Jews that are standing before the lamb and honoring him. But they're so much from each tribe of Israel, 12,000 each, or however, the math comes out. But they're all standing there and they're playing all these songs and do you think they were playing a practiced piece. Or do you think they were playing in the moment?
Batsirai Chada: 4:14
Obviously, you know, we want to be faithful to Scripture and, you know, my imagination would go, to... I mean, I want it like, Is it a harp? We don't know even understand the physicality of heaven. Um, what is an inanimate object in heaven, you know, Is it just right? Souls and God, um, I mean, obviously there's a throne room. There's crowns and they are inanimate things
LaMar Boschman: 4:38
and what they look like. Well, they really like,
Batsirai Chada: 4:40
like, would have sound like Is that crown like metal like, is it like, you
LaMar Boschman: 4:46
know, which is an earth substance,
Batsirai Chada: 4:48
which is an earth substance? Yeah, we can look at Jesus glorified body and realize that it is both substance and able to pass through substance, right? Right now he's able to eat fish, have Thomas stick his finger in his side and walk through walls. There's something to the nature of substance in in heaven or in that spiritual realm that isn't clouds and gas and, ghostie type figures wafting around. And at the same time, it's not concrete and hard. I don't know. I I honestly have no concept of it. If John is seeing something like that, yeah, then maybe he is using language that is closely resemble something that he's experienced
LaMar Boschman: 5:36
that he knows here on earth
Batsirai Chada: 5:37
that he knows here on earth. That doesn't mean that that's what it was,
LaMar Boschman: 5:41
literally Yeah, literally. Because we're gonna have different bodies there. And Jesus, like you said as a different body were in the third heaven, not the atmosphere over the earth. That's the prince power of of the air, Satan's realm. And it's not the second heaven with all the universes of the Galaxies. It's the Third Heaven. So what that's like, Who knows? It's an eternal realm, though No gravity, you know nothing that we know here. No oxygen. So what is gold look like? They're for a crown, What is a harp look like? They're could be some ethereal, creepy looking. I mean, nothing that we know. That's why I call it creepy, But it's a transcendent entity. And so we don't know the tones. We don't know the pitch. We don't know the length of the string. In fact, it's very interesting because the martyrs we find a revelation 15:2 they're standing before the throne, victorious over the beast and his image. And over the tattoo from the Satanic monster who killed him and they're standing there and they're playing the harps given them by God. They're called the Harps of God. Wow! And they...
LaMar Boschman: 6:58
sing the song of Moses and the song of Lamb. These are harps. God prepared. They're manufactured by God given to them they're playing God's harps. They're not Yamaha, Martin, or Taylor and, what,
Batsirai Chada: 7:11
right, and it seems like it could be all of them. I mean, when he says they were all they were all holding harps that God had given him right, so all of them were holding them. You could imply that they were playing them that God gave them. He didn't give harp to somebody who doesn't know how to play that harp, right? So they didn't have to learn things. That's just wasn't something. Oh, I Well, sorry, God, I can't take that. I don't really know. My I can only play in G. That's funny. They were more than able to play. I think it's like the gifts of the spirit, like, He gives us these things and we don't have to learn how to be us hospitable. We just are. We don't have to learn, you know, we can get better at it, but we you know, it's something inbred. And so God gives them. They play, and it's almost like I just know how to play this. I don't know how we know how to play this, but I know how to play this, and I know the song we're playing. I've never sung this song before.
LaMar Boschman: 8:07
Yes, it was imparted to them or it was instinctive in them and they just were able to do it and God hands out all these guitars. I mean, maybe even 144,000. So think about that. Like, how long are the strings? Five miles, like 20 kilometers, right? The sound they make. Oh, were they a centimeter. I don't know. My imagination thinks they're huge. And how many fingers do we have on our hands? You know, Do we have 12 on each hand, and then how do we play? How do we pluck? How do we strum out? You know, the mind boggling.
Batsirai Chada: 8:48
Yeah, I think it's safe use. I mean, the only thing we have is Jesus as a as our model. Someone who is both in the earth's in our realm and in and a heavenly body. I think the fact that He looked like a man, that He had the attributes of 10 fingers the whole nine. Um, and yet there was something still slightly different about Him that, you know, not everybody recognized Him right away
LaMar Boschman: 9:14
and He's transcendent. And he has a different body when he was glorified. Yeah, And so that will be similar to us. And in the third realm, in the third heavens, when the angels manifested to earthlings, they appeared as men and you add to that that were created in the image of God. We're little reflection of some part of God. And so I'm not saying, you know, he has hair like mine.
Batsirai Chada: 9:42
Maybe just the same color, but a little longer. But we're a
LaMar Boschman: 9:47
reflection of him not only in character, in our spirit, but perhaps in a natural way. So when we get there, John sees them and he compares them to people and things that he knows here on earth. And he says they have the harps of God that tells me one thing, that they're transcendent. They're not like any harp or guitar that we've ever seen,
Batsirai Chada: 10:07
Right. But I also wouldn't put it past,... like the Tabernacle of Moses was a type and shadow of things in heaven. It wasn't created distinct from the thoughts of God, right? God gave him the dimensions, give them exactly how things should look for there was precision around it. And it was also a type in the shadow of what was in heaven, like in the same way I think Jesus's body that is the glorified body. That's when he ascends. He doesn't change the body that Thomas stuck his finger into is the one that is in heaven now. Jesus is the man, and He's still in the crucified form. It's a transcendent body. It can pass through physical objects, right, and yet it can be touched.
LaMar Boschman: 10:52
And at the same time he's in heaven, glorified and even a higher, higher dimension. Because He came to earth, he had to dumb down it hit at them, I believe so. We're getting in too deep theology here that is beyond our scope of comprehension. But I'm wondering
Batsirai Chada: 11:08
about the impact of instrument in that context, right? Right. The instrument doesn't have to be drastically different or are the instruments. We have types and shadows of what originated in God anyways,
LaMar Boschman: 11:22
yes, and so I think I would like to study that matter of what Jesus form is now. What are form is when we get to heaven and then try to adapt that, or imagine what that would be like to inanimate objects. Like you said. Yeah, but let's stick to the music aspect of this because I think that God created harps and gave them to a group of people to play tells me that music is really important to Him. for sure. Let me think about that. Music is important to Him. Not only does he do all the aim gets all the angels to say, but he gives these martyrs, and these 144,000 Messianic Jews the ability to play harps. And then it says the four living creatures. But I call aliens cause they're not anything on earth like them. So they're extra celestial, so to speak, and they're not from around here. And that's what alien means. And so it says here that every time the four live aliens prescribe praise and power to the righteous ruler, I'm reading from (this a paraphrase) Two dozen Earth leaders would get off their seats of power and lay down at the foot of the royal chair of the Just Judge, and this shows us a picture of it abandoned worship. So there's the 24 elders plus the living creatures, and it said, each one of them having a harp, that's Revelation 5:8 every one of them playing a harp. So it looks like, a lot of people in heaven are playing guitars I think we should just start practicing.
Batsirai Chada: 12:59
It is amazing. And and back at God gives and maybe... God loves music, not just as a... oh, I'd love to hear some music. But I love it so much that I'm going to make instruments that I'm gonna give you the gift so that you can give that gift back to me.
LaMar Boschman: 13:18
There you go. And it's like He wants constant streaming of music in heaven. But it's not Spotify. Hello. We're getting a picture, He is creating this environment of these singers and these celestial music makers on instruments of with voice to play like you said around his throne. And that again affirms how much he must love music.
LaMar Boschman: 13:45
the music of God powerful, powerful. So let me ask you a question. Knowing that musical instruments are in heaven and that God created instruments gave them to a certain group like the overcomer's. They played the harps of God. What does that tell us for us earth dwellers that love God and wannabe kingdom musicians and serve the King and play at His pleasure? What? What kind of dynamics here are we picking up principles. For example,
Batsirai Chada: 14:15
I God made things. He made instruments because I had a purpose and we make instruments for purpose. Yes, they could be abused. And yes, they can be used the wrong way for a variety of alternative reasons. That doesn't disqualify the singular reason the primary reason. So God made, is making harps in heaven. You think I love music so much and I love your voices everybody. It's fantastic angels can sing too. This is amazing. But this would be great if it had some cord patterns that help... give some sort of lift tow the melodies you're singing. God is a musician. I think we have to say,
LaMar Boschman: 14:55
Wow, that's an interesting concept. So music was with God. So He's a music maker. So He's a musician.
Batsirai Chada: 15:03
He's a musician. He is the conductor who makes the instruments for the orchestra. He's conducting it. So say meaning like, I am equipping you guys, but I'm also the primary audience of that music. Right? And all that music is coming back to me.
LaMar Boschman: 15:20
He's also the inspiration of the music because okay gives them all these instruments. He gives them the ability to sing. And then He says, Look at me and they instinctively reflect back to Him in musical compositions that are in the moment, what they see and behold,
Batsirai Chada: 15:37
sometimes a conductor or a musician, some exploratory musician will. Right. I sound in my head, and I need to make an instrument that can achieve that sound. They don't know about a pre-existing one that can do that. And we know we know that here on earth people will make a weird piano that has different tones to it. I wonder if God is like, there's something going on musically in my head and I need to equip view with the instruments that are required to produce that sound right? And so I'm giving you these hearts not because hearts are basic, because these hearts can you things that you guys can't do on your own.
LaMar Boschman: 16:17
And if there's vibrations and music in God, there's the whole aspect of sympathetic vibrations where we reverberate and re sound what He... is coming from Him. There is a whole kind of possibilities
Batsirai Chada: 16:29
here I just love that thing of God being a musician and therefore creating the instruments that are required to produce the music that He loves you and is inspiring.
LaMar Boschman: 16:40
Let's call him Father music. Call him Father Music, Son composer Oh, and Holy Spirit Conductor. Right in the Trinity There an awesome orchestral musical trio. What about the Angels? It's interesting in the Bible that it does not say the angels play harps, but all the other groups do. What do they play? Can anybody guess? Well, the only thing I can come up with is they play trumpets. It's not in praise and worship. It's a proclamation and declaration sounding alarm because these awesome mighty angels appear throughout the Book of Revelation
LaMar Boschman: 17:21
Then they're blowing these massive instruments, and then signs and wonders begin to happen
Batsirai Chada: 17:27
Again, we're getting a glimpse of something that's far beyond time and space. John's revelation is not a descriptive piece of every aspect of heaven, right, But maybe, like in the few minutes I was there. Here's what I saw. You know what? We don't want to be extra biblical. We also don't want to assume that because it wasn't in revelations or in some other part of the Bible that it can't possibly exist. I would imagine that that He made more instruments than harps. Then the quote unquote revelation harp that there may be others that those trumpets that are used to sound the breaking of the seals could be used in other things. It talks about Lucifer having The instruments being a part of the actual body are their instrumentations, that are actually physical and part of angels or part of some of the beings. So, I think that's a
LaMar Boschman: 18:23
that's a very yeah, Yeah, God loves music so much He has equipped us with the ability to make music in different levels in different ways. And so that's powerful. Ah, merely enjoying this topic The music of God. We're coming to the end of our session, Batsirai. I thank you for your contribution. I want to challenge all of us to consider being more expressive in our worship because these guitar players saw God high and lifted up and they fell upon their guitars while they're playing. It says they fell down prostrate, having the harps of God. We can get more of this information and the scriptures and the theology and the background and the biblical principles on the online course, the Music of God at Lamarboschman.com and check out YouTube channel subscribe to it and you'll get more secrets on praise and worship and music of God's kingdom because this is my life study. Hey, it oozes out of me. So Batsirai thank you so much for chatting with us and giving us your inspirations.
Batsirai Chada: 19:30
Thank you very much. Thank you.
LaMar Boschman: 19:32
Amen. Well, it's exciting to talk to like minded musicians who want to be kingdom musicians, and that's our goal in this dialogue is what is it like to serve music to make music and God's kingdom? First of all, what is this Kingdom music making like and then what role do we play and how could we become supernatural music makers. Tune into our next episode. We're going to be looking at some other truths about music and God's kingdom. So tell a friend, Tell your tribe, Tell your team to check out the music of God and we will discover the principles of God's kingdom concerning music. See you in the next session.