Inspiring author LaMar Boschman discusses with Batsirai Chada the possibility of melody being the language of heaven. Do the angels sing? Does God sing? If so what does He sound like? How does melody in heaven affect us today on earth? Discover what the Bible says about melody in heaven. Explore the sources, the power and the elements of the melodies of heaven.
These topics are in a transformational online course called The Music of God that will help you know how to use music to experience God's presence and power resulting in miracles.
LaMar's books and blogs on the subject are available at LaMarBoschman.com
LaMar Boschman: 0:00
Welcome to the LaMar Boschman podcast. I'm LaMar Boschman, and our topic in this episode is Melody. The Language of Heaven. We'll discover the controversy over whether there's melody or music at all in heaven, and we'll explore the sources, the power and the elements of the melodies of heaven. And these episode topics are from an online course called The Music of God that's available that LaMarBoschman.com . Now let's join the conversation. We're exploring the music of God, the music and God's economy, the music and God's kingdom, the music in heaven and all that the Bible says about the music of God. And I'm so excited about this subject because it's been my life's study of my first book was the Rebirth of Music, where I listed 1100 mentions of music in the Bible, and it's kind of open the door for my ministry. This was the back many, many years ago, Actually, the first book was published in 1980. Tens of thousands of copies have been sold. Its never became mainstream. It just was kind of cultish thing. People would love to follow it as a grassroots underground, so to speak, and those radical musicians who wanted to learn what is the music of God all about? And was one of the few books ever written on the subject. So this is part of my main message in life. So today we're gonna look at the melody in heaven or the language of melody and heaven and how music is so much part of heaven that Ike, I believe that it's the language there. But I want to point out some controversy that happens in the Bible. You perhaps have noticed a discrepancy when you read the Book of Revelation, it says. And they played the harps of God and said, Well, that confuses us. We say, they didn't really sing because it says they said. But when you look at the original text and some scholars say in the Greek that the words 'said' and 'singing' is interchangeable and whether or not that's the case, because I'm not a Greek scholar, but when it has context that it says they played instruments. And they sang, saying, We're going to believe it to be singing, and if it's in the context or in any translation that says singing and other translations do not we will regard it as singing to cause us to think outside the box of our culture, our interpretation of Scripture, and see what the possibilities are in God's economy of music of the kingdom. So some translations you say singing, some say, saying, And depending on the context and the translations and even some commentaries, perhaps we will go with the one that focuses on the aspect of music and singing. I'm excited to have Batsirai join us today again on this podcast from Toronto area in Canada. He's a worship leader, musician and singer. He loves God is a man of God, and he has some interesting concepts concerning this subject. So welcome Batsirai
Batsirai Chada: 3:13
Thank you. Glad to be back? Interesting concepts I like thinking about these things and certainly interesting. And God asks us to love him, love him with our whole minds. Yeah,
LaMar Boschman: 3:27
Yeah, I'm looking here at a Scripture Revelation 5:13 in the New Living Translation. And that's a pretty good one to get some references on music you don't find elsewhere. And it said then I heard every creature in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and in the sea. And they sang. So based on that translation, I believe and surmise that it's very possible that every creature in heaven, every creature on the earth, under the earth, in the sea, all of them together saying, Well, what does that tell us? What does that tell you?
Batsirai Chada: 3:58
Well, it's as singing is part of their DNA and part of the original intent. That's, you know, if God's creating us in his own image, And even creating the rest of the creative order out of Himself. Then he said, Hey, listen, this is how I communicate. I communicate with music. Therefore, I want to give these beings these creative orders these even in animate objects like a rock or a galaxy far away. Uh, they all vibrate and have frequencies that we perceive as melody. If we're gonna define melody as a sequence of pitches, intentional rhythm, it kind of pattern, I think everything birds, you know, we wake up to them in the morning. We hear birds singing. They don't think they're singing there, just communicating there, just expressing who they are. But they're hauling out to one another
LaMar Boschman: 4:59
instinctively just radiating some kind of expression.
Batsirai Chada: 5:03
Exactly. And we perceive it as singing. You listen to those NASA recordings of faraway sort of galaxies or stars or whatever they have the sort of rumble or this kind of pattern. And, you know, maybe it's not, You know, it's not a sort of love song ballad, you know, melody, but it's a pattern that has a musicality to it.
LaMar Boschman: 5:25
There you go, because we can't think about this subject in our definition of the art of music, because that's a Greek worldview and we're looking at what the Bible says. And that's a Hebrew world view. It's a God view. So our paradigms. Are different? Us. We must keep that in mind. We're not talking about art form that's outside of oneself, but a musicality like you said. Batsirai, that's part of us that that emanates. All indigenous peoples when they sat around and just sang for the harvest, they brought in or around the campfire, telling stories of the tribe, they did not ever say, Oh, I'm not a singer, I can't sing. No, they just distinctively sang. They just did it a newborn baby just distinctively sings, cries out. Ah (baby crying) you know, it's not just the scream. No slap the bottom anymore. Uh, God made us. In fact, when we get into the study, we're gonna see how we as earthlings are made to be an instrument to sing and make music at just like God made certain angels. So this is a tremendous subject. Hey. I just see on my screen here. There's a book I'm reading called All the Music of the Bible. Herbert Locklear Jr wrote this and he said these interesting words. He said all melody, harmony and joyful praises spring from Him, who is a happy God created humans to be like himself. So when we talked earlier that music was with God and perhaps God sang the world's into existence because how do you define speaking and singing. He has the sound of many waters. He has the sound of white noise when He speaks. So there's all these frequencies and pulsations and vibrations this quantum melodies of music coming out of Him, and it has. It sounds like thunder. It's huge to our little earth receptors that if he's a happy God and He created angels to sing and He roars with melodies out of Himself then isn't it possible that He created earth dwellers to sing as well as created heaven's creatures to sing?
Batsirai Chada: 7:36
Why would you do anything else? You want to give the best of yourself to the thing you are creating, and you want to give it expression? I don't think we sing in the same way as as God sings, you know, when he sings again Galaxies air created right way saying, Now we we recreate. You go to any concert and, you know, get someone gets up there and sings and they can create emotions in you. They can create new ways of thinking, constructive ways, positive ways or negative ways. Music has that ability to not just communicate a concept, but to create a reaction in the recipient. And so to think that God uses music as a way of communicating, of creating, of expressing and then imbued that ability in its creative order. Whales communicate with one another. Dolphins, they sing and we call it music because it has tone and it has rhythm and it has pitch and it's obviously intentional.
LaMar Boschman: 8:44
Music is an emotional language, and God created it such for us to express at a higher and deeper level. So when it comes time to worship God, all God's creatures, they instinctively go to that place cause I have a suspicion that he put it in all of us, the ability to create this emotional language that is musical or has musicality qualities.
Batsirai Chada: 9:09
When I when I see something that scares me and I instinctively scream and recoil back from it, I didn't think about that. It was just an instinctual, primal response to that stimulus, to that trigger. And in the same way, I think if you open your eyes one day and you saw the full manifest expression of the Godhead, they would be in an instinctual either awe, for lack of a better word and that all would be either could be like Holy Holy and even there to fully express what we're actually feeling and so fully respond to this Holy one, we wouldn't say Holy holy holy, Holy! It'll be like holy Oh, I don't know. I'm just making this up now, But it just like it would have tone and rhythm and emotion and pitch. And by definition, those things are musical.
LaMar Boschman: 10:09
Yeah, there be highly emotional expression and so, like you said an illustrated so well, you can't just say holy or hallelujah, it doesn't make any sense. It is like that song "I can Only Imagine' what what I do when I get there, But I follow my face What I'd be dumbstruck and stunned in total silence. That's not what
LaMar Boschman: 10:36
the Bible indicates. Bible indicates the creatures reflect back to Him what they behold of His pristine perfections. And they cannot stop singing and glorifying Him of His attributes and character and most of the highest and holiest and great transcendent language. And so it needs the right kind of emotional language to go with it. What else is there? But music
Batsirai Chada: 11:01
Matt Redman says, Ah, worship is a response. If you saw the most beautiful, awe inspiring, just totally magnificent multi splendored being in the whole, universe, multi verse, whatever it is, all creation, what would our response be and what would our strongest mode of communication be as humans? And I I don't think we'd say speaking, I don't think we'd say, I mean silence is a response, but I think at a primal level it would be, ahhhh, and the thing that would emanate from our mouth would be musical. Would have tone and pitch. And I think so. It's not so much that music is the thing is more that our response is so awe filled that the only way to communicate that awe is with a multifaceted intensity, which is best expressed with song melody music,
LaMar Boschman: 12:09
Right? And like you said, it's instinctive. It's primal. It's a natural reaction to great emotion. Is the reflecting back in, Uh or, uh, like a newborn baby? You know, we're not gonna intellectualize about this right now on a cup of tea. The queen's tea. No, we're gonna just go ahhhh because we've seen them so high. I'm looking at a Scripture says the voices of thousands and millions of angels around the throne, and they sang in a mighty chorus, "Worthy is the Lamb who was slaughtered to receive power, riches, honor and glory and blessing." That's one of the translations that we referred to in the course, the music of God and that says it. So So getting back to, uh, Is melody the language of heaven? Looking at it from this transcendent view of the awesomeness and power of God and He's the highest and holiest instinctively responding to him in an intensity and emotion. And I so excited, knocked the mic over that we get that it has to be musical. That has to be had a higher level
LaMar Boschman: 13:28
than just speech. And those only two realms that really know, I mean, we could be silent, but that's not apropos necessarily to that moment. When you behold Him, what will my response be? I can hear a song that you and I gonna write well, and I response be, Yeah, I see him High and Holy
Batsirai Chada: 13:49
Right? And I think if we even as we we use the word music or melody or song Well, like you said before, we are bringing our frame of reference to bear. Um, so when we say, Oh, our response is going to be singing It's on. I am gonna break out in song because I saw the Lord. Maybe what music means up there in response to a clear view of who He is, even our definition of music might expand. Will expand certainly. You know what we consider music today in the the tones that we have and scales that we have are a fraction of what it's possible, I'm sure.
LaMar Boschman: 14:32
And I think there's a lot of musical sources in heaven that that make melody. The Bible refers to 144,000 those martyrs, those Messianic Jews rather. And then it refers to the martyrs, the overcome er's who overcame the satanic beast and his tattoo. And then there's the angels that sing. And then there's the 24 elders, that sing. And then there's the four living creatures that the Bible says, sing. Well, that's pretty, well, all the occupants of heaven as described except for the cherubs and and they're the four living creatures, technically and the seraphs and the Archangels. But we're going to get into that and find out that some of them even sing. So, I believe melody is the emotional language of heaven of course we are not gonna feel emotions like it is here, but it could be intense still, because there's feelings, there's expressions. I mean, when somebody gets saved here on earth, the angels get very happy and get joy filled the happy emotion. So this is an exciting study. I was just looking here that John compares their singing to loud thunder, rattling the air and rattling the ground when he said, I heard something like a voice of a great multitude, like the sound found of many waters, and they were making music. So there's this intensity in this emotion that is described by John, the cousin of Jesus, who's now 80 years old on the Isle of Patmos and goes into a trance. And we don't know if he's caught up into the third Heaven or if he just sees the visions of God. But there's in the apocalypse, this revelation of the end times of what's in the future, what's in the past, what's happening in the celestial realm, and he records so much music. It's amazing. Batsirai I was interviewing Jack Hayford. I went to his home I was interviewing him for some, course I'm writing on worship for the largest video Bible school in the world. We will talk about that another time, but he said a statement that blew my mind. This was like two years ago. I said, How important is music in God's economy? So, LaMar, the creation and the consummation of the Earth are all in the context of song, he said. Wow, drop the mic. For two years, I've been thinking about that, and revelation keeps exploding in my mind. The creation of the earth and the consummation of the Earth are all in the context of song. What does that say? That means that song is part of the story of God, from the beginning of the
LaMar Boschman: 17:08
earth to the end of the earth and beyond. So this in His economy song is part of God's kingdom, so that's what we're exploring here. What's your response?
Batsirai Chada: 17:20
Not just the creation and consummation, but the in between. Yes, you know, if the gap in between and there's ah, songwriter Chris, Rice, that I love. And here's a song called Hallelujah and it's all about this. How the creative order sings back to the Lord and lifts up their song in hallelujahs, this is first really think, Oh, created moon and sparrow's wings Oh thunder's boom and Saturn's ring Unveil our Father as you sing and my soul wells up with hallelujahs Oh, praise Him all you mighty works There is no language where You can't be heard Your song goes out throughout the earth Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah. I love this one. The pulse of life within my wrist A fallen snow a rising mist There is no higher praise than this And my soul wells up with Hallelujah and just talking about the fact that all creation in just the rhythm of life. You know, it's not even about in the worship moments or in the time where we purpose to look at God, It's talking about just in the rhythm of life as our pulse beats as our hearts beat as mist splashes against the rocks as waves crash against the rocks. So to say, um, all these things ...as a bird sings as sparrow beats its wings as we hear the frequencies of saturn's rings that, all of these things are music, Yes, all those things are the melody
LaMar Boschman: 19:04
and the part of God's creation. He made him that way for purpose. So we want to discover what is the purpose. And so we're coming to the end of our time together. But I want to challenge those of you that are listening and watching that you, consider what does this mean to you? Melody is the language of heaven. What does this mean to you? Jesus taught us to pray. Let your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Okay, that involves music too. So if you want to take your music making to a higher level or to another dimension. We're talking about the music of God, musicians who play and sing and Christians who began to lift up their voice and put on music that begins to touch God and the power and the miracle on the authority of God begins to flow through them. It's powerful. Well, in our next podcast or God cast, however you want to say it. We're gonna explore the songs of heaven and what they're like and the dynamics of them. And keep in mind it's not art. It's not like we have here on earth. Batsirai, thank you so much for being with us. We'll join each other in the next session of this podcast, the music of God. Thank you.